Sharon Horgan, host of a BBC show "Have I Got News For You" is catching
a lot of flak from islamic officials for a (possibly) tasteless joke
that she told on her show.
"The Independent described the Dostoevsky metro station... as the Meccafor suicides. Not to be confused with the Mecca of suicide bombers -
which is Mecca."
First off, that IS funny!
Not because I paint all Muslims as suicide bombers, but because it is a clever play on words and the unpalatable fact that the suicide bombers in the news are Muslim. Clearly no one with a modicum of sense believes that all Muslims are suicide bombers, but Mecca IS the direction that the newsworthy suicide bombers pray towards.
Second, there is irony in the protests, because those who are offended by this are threatening HER. If this doesn't represent the stereotype more than her joke did, then I'll eat a cat. (and I like cats a lot)
Third, (and most important!) if Muslims across the world are more upset by this joke than those Muslims dragging Islam's rep through the mud by being suicide bombers for Allah, then their priorities are pretty mixed up. Use this sort of comment as fuel to publically attack those organizations and show the world that Islam will not stand for violence in it's name. Why must we only hear of Islam's offense when there is a cartoon drawn, a joke made, a movie released, women defended, or bikini's worn?
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| Stop implying we are violent...OR I'LL KILL YOU! |
Stand up Islam!
Stand up and tell the Muslim world that your leaders will no longer put up with such vile acts. (if you can get them off the news talking about vile things that is)
Stand up against Sharia laws that subjugate women and call for the death penalty for the simplest of crimes. Stand up and disavow Islam with violent protests and call the protesters offensive.
Stand up and show the world how little you appreciate your own members acting in such a way.
THIS would be the way for Islam to clean up it's world image. By staying relatively silent on these crimes that should be far more eggregious than simple jokes and cartoons, they give silent permission to those who ACTUALLY damage the way that the world perceives them.
If they are offended, they should direct their ire in the right direction.
Shouldn't their voices be the loudest each time a bomb sounds killing innocents in their name, or at every protest where "Kill the Infidel" signs are displayed by Muslims, or at the very mention of beating or
stoning women? If they were really concerned about being seen as a peaceful religion, shouldnt' they be first in line fighting Sharia law in many of it's forms?
I am pretty sure that no one would answer "No" to that.
Aren't there acid scarred women, stoned reporters, bomb victims, that need those voices supporting their cause?
If they are so concerned about their reputations, shouldn't they have better things to rail against?
So why I am only hearing them ring in the media in response to a harmless comedian?
Shouldn't their voices be the loudest each time a bomb sounds killing innocents in their name, or at every protest where "Kill the Infidel" signs are displayed by Muslims, or at the very mention of beating or
stoning women? If they were really concerned about being seen as a peaceful religion, shouldnt' they be first in line fighting Sharia law in many of it's forms?
I am pretty sure that no one would answer "No" to that.
Aren't there acid scarred women, stoned reporters, bomb victims, that need those voices supporting their cause?
If they are so concerned about their reputations, shouldn't they have better things to rail against?
So why I am only hearing them ring in the media in response to a harmless comedian?
You decide...
Headline Cartoon found here
Jason: are you really sure that Musims do not stand up against suicide bombers? The media that feeds you the news simply doesn't report this anymore...
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure if you sit at a café with a Muslim, I'm pretty sure he isn't going to tell you about this comedian or the danish cartoons etc... but he will probably broach the subject of suicide bombers...
First, you realize that I get more than one channel right?
ReplyDeleteSecond, the Muslim response to these trivial things is far greater then the one protesting the real crimes.
Third, believe it or not I have debated with many of my Muslim friends and rarely does the topic of suicide bombing get broached. Mind you neither do the cartoon, but that is because I don't hang out with idiots.
The simple fact is that the "message" runs rampant even in the countries that are most representative of their core beliefs and very few stand against them with a Muslim condemnation.
The last time I stood up and painted Islam in a positive light I was told that I am not a real muslim because real muslims are those you described above. When I see a Muslim scholar standing up for Islam in a debate, he/she is quickly reminded that they are wrong because of the vile acts described above. It is difficult to stand up for Islam when people have already decided what Islam really is.
ReplyDeleteBut here I am standing up for Islam on your page. I can not speak for the "leaders" of the faith, but I speak for myself as a Muslim. I am against violent protests and strongly believe in a pluralistic and peaceful society and the rights of every man and woman regardless of religion/color/etc.
But it is not enough is it? Sadly I am not in any position where my actions can directly change the lives of those stoned/burned women/reporters/victims.
Now do your part. Say something positive about Islam. There are a lot of positives about Islam in the world and you can help spread them to support those being treated unfairly. Let us work together, atheists, muslims, christians, jews, etc to rid the world of such ignorance and evil.
But if this is not part of your agenda, then do not ask the rest of the muslim world to stand up, because you will probably ask them to sit right back down.
Nab, I respect that you are trying to stand up for moderation in the Muslim world. The problem with that, along with Judaism and Christianity, is that to be a moderate Muslim/Jew/Christian makes you a bad Muslim/Jew/Christian. Wouldn't it be far more logical to conclude that proper path is that none of these religions are anything but absurd?
ReplyDeleteNab said > I am against violent protests and strongly believe in a pluralistic and peaceful society and the rights of every man and woman regardless of religion/color/etc.
ReplyDeleteThen why are you a Muslim? (I ask the same question of Christians.)
nab said > Say something positive about Islam.
There is nothing positive about Islam. Of course, there is nothing positive about any religion.
@claytonbroyles. Most forms of religion stem from the idea that there is a god. Different interpretations lead to moderates or fanatics. To athiests, the idea of god is absurd, hence all forms of religion are absurd. To someone who chooses to believe in a god however, the moderate path is not absurd. Personally, I find it more logical that all peoples with common goals should come together against a common evil and find ways to remove/denounce that evil.
ReplyDelete@PStryder. Thanks for illustrating my point. I will sit down now.
@Genreal Kafka
ReplyDeleteAs a person who lives in an islamic country(Iran) I disagree with you. I remember that when that danish newspaper published cartoons of Mohammad they spent at least a week condemning it in the media and even government supported rallies. But I can't remember much reaction to suicide bombings.
(P.S. at the time of 9/11 I was 6 but I do have a vague memory of my mother saying "They deserved it!" after hearing the news on TV)
@PStryder Right, because the golden age of Islam when the first universities were founded, when mathematics and science made great leaps forward is not positive.
ReplyDeleteAnd considering that most the religions I know of preach/teach peaceful behaviour and respect for others at some point also makes me question what you think positive means...
nhrn. He is talking about the RELIGION itself. not what people did in the past. And by the way, those things, like the science age was when religion was not that strong in the middle east. And then religion came. And now there is not so much left of that..
ReplyDeleteAnd no, most religion says that those who dont belive in a god.. Will go to hell, how is that respect for others? What religion have you been looking at? Maybe some random christian church in america is like that. but that doesnt matter. Becouse the real danger, is the people that preches death upon everyone that goes agianst "our holy creator" or whatever. Thats the problem! saying that there are SOME good religous people doesn't change all the cruel things religion is teaching people.
"if Muslims across the world are more upset by this joke than those Muslims dragging Islam's rep through the mud by being suicide bombers for Allah, then their priorities are pretty mixed up."
ReplyDeleteI don't buy this argument. You can be upset at both. Every Islamic organization I've been a part of has been shouting all day, every day for the past decade and a half that we condemn terrorism, that these people do not represent Islam, that these people kill Muslims too, ect ect. And yes, we also condemn when non Muslims call us terrorists and make bigoted statements. There is no contradiction between the two. The problem is that the mainstream media selectively decides which of our condemnations to amplify to the world, and which ones to utterly ignore. The only way to change that is to get Muslims in the mainstream media, which is slowly happening, but it will take time.
also @Ace. I also am in Iran. You say you were 6 when 9/11 happened. I was a few years older than you, and I was in Iran at the time, so perhaps my memory is a little better. When 9/11 happened, Iran unequivocally condemned it. They even stopped the chants of 'death to America' in Friday prayers for months afterwards, until Bush made his 'Axis of Evil' speech. They had candlelight vigils in Tehran the next day. I remember there was a big world cup qualifier, and they held a moment of silence. Similarly regarding suicide bombing, you know how many clerics, how many Marjas (the highest ranking Shia clergy, a grand ayatollah) have made statements saying its completely haram? But you don't hear about any of these things. Why? Because those voices don't get broadcast, only the loudest, most obnoxious ones do.
Huge source full of condemnation by Islamic intellectuals, professors, leaders etc.
ReplyDeletehttp://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm
On the other hand want to see peaceful westerners standing up against westernofascist who bomb the shit out of people overseas giving these lunatics fundamentlist legitimacy? Where are they peaceful fucks?
"Islamic intellectual" is an oxymoron, but then so is "Christian intellectual".
DeleteHere's a challenge to all Muslims, don't get offended.
ReplyDeleteThere's an old saying we tell children: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
We tell children so that they learn to deal with the things people say because words don't do anything physical, they don't harm people, nothing happens, a joke, a cartoon doesn't change anything.
Only ONLY if the person lets those words harm themselves.
I am very aware that there is a small movement who come out against this kind of violent act, but the loudest voice comes from those who are offended at the jokes and cartoons. The voices that speak out against the violence are simply not as prevalent. I am very pleased to see some speaking out here. That gives me faith that hopefully more will follow.
ReplyDelete